Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks so much for joining us. This is Daniel Estulin and welcome to Estulin.Media. Today we’re going to talk to my good friend Matt Ehret. I always mispronounce his name. The topic is, well, his book Black Sun Rising and the Hidden Architecture of Power from Esoteric Nazism to the Technocratic Future. You know, Matt, you and I share, , I think several important areas of research, but there are also significant methodological differences. I was thinking about it yesterday between our approaches, you, you tend to interpret history, , through the lens of the struggle between oligarchical empires and the Republican and also productive traditions. I think your focus is often on the conflict between the financial imperial system and the nation building traditions rooted in scientific and economic cultural development. My approach, by contrast, , explores a deeper layer of, power, the hidden architecture of power itself. And so I examined metapolitics, intelligence networks, cognitive war, civilizational transformations, symbolic systems, and also the mechanisms through which elites shape perceptions, cultures, historical trajectories. And for that reason, I think this interview, we’re going to avoid this becoming a kind of a simplistic debate or clich\u00e9 about whether Hitler was good or bad. Okay. Because I think this is the, the superficial level of analysis. I think the more interesting and intellectually valuable discussion is to use Black Sun Rising, which I, you know, I found absolutely fascinating as a kind of a framework for examining the persistence of certain esoteric, oligarchical technocratic currents that survive political regimes and transcend ideological labels and also reappear across, , different historical eras. In any case, it’s kind of a way of an introduction. So Matt, thanks so much for your time and welcome to the show.<\/p>\n
Hey, and thank you for having me back on your show. I always love our chats. And I gotta say, like the way you frame this as well. I really value that because there’s very few people that are so self aware of the underlying sort of axiomatic underpinnings of, of hypothesizing and, and higher hypothesis hypothesizing the higher hypothesis, which I know you do that and you’re, you’re one of the few who do so to see to be sensitive to our different.<\/p>\n
I look at things from a conceptual point of view.<\/p>\n
Yeah you do.<\/p>\n
And I didn’t realize I love how you made it so transparent. The different sort of approaches that we both have to map the same kind of phenomenon. And I think it’s going to offer a lot of coloring to this conversation, however it unfolds. I’m very curious.<\/p>\n
It it always it always does. Well, we, you know, we always have, let’s talk about this and we will talk about everything. But what we actually, it’s fine. It doesn’t make a difference because it’s always fun. So, so let me ask you this. If you had to smarize, , the central lesson of Black sun rising in a kind of a single sentence or a short paragraph for for future generations, what would it be?<\/p>\n
It would be I think the warning of what happens when we allow black magicians who want to control the shadows on the cave to take power, powerful top down positions over deciding the tempo of the norms of the culture, of the politics, of the the geopolitical realities that we are told to adapt to. And when we allow for black magicians to emerge into powerful positions, certain consequences that are very, very unnatural and destructive will always be outcome unless we’re wise and can break patterns, , as has occasionally been done. So that’s, that’s what I would say would be my core simplistic statement of why I did this film and what I hope people would learn as a lesson going forward.<\/p>\n
And again, for our one one, Matt talks about black magicians not talking about somebody who was black, and he pulls a rabbit out of a hat. I know we don’t need to do this, but there are some people who are going to be saying, what does this have to do with what these people are talking about? Now let’s talk about.<\/p>\n
Don’t be like Shaka Za with a no no, I don’t mean.<\/p>\n
Maybe. Let’s talk about the esoteric. So most people understand Nazism as a kind of a as a political movement. But your work suggests something much deeper. You argue that the Nazi leadership functioned as an initiating order. It was literally it was a cult. So what exactly was the Black Sun?<\/p>\n
I think, well, the Black Sun is something that goes back a long ways, but it was enshrined in a in a sort of it was codified by Madame Blavatsky in her secret doctrine, in a in a particular way that became violent as an idea of cosmology, that many of the high initiates of the Thule Society and earlier Ariosophy and Germanic order initiates, which is basically German. German ified, , theosophists of especially the esoteric strand because you had exoteric theosophists that believe in light and life and nice things. And then you have the esoteric, , Theosophist branch that Blavatsky set up in 1887 that deals with the special inner teachings and inner interpretations of many of the symbolisms that are only available for the inner elite. And the Black Sun was the idea that, , you have in Gnostic cosmology, or at least many of the strands of Gnostic cosmology, the belief that the universe is created evil, not good by an evil demiurge, an emanation of the first cause, the light that caused all of the sub emanations that had a sexualized foundation that mated with each other, out of which you saw, we saw, they believed, emerged one Sophia, who was animated by hate, especially the hate of men and the hate of sex with men, and had sex with herself as an androgynous being that that birthed the Demiurge, the Yaldabaoth, as it was called in the secret Apocryphon of John. Other Gnostic texts also talk about this cosmology.<\/p>\n
Now that original first light is beyond good and evil. It’s a beyond right and wrong. It’s just the first light. And the demiurge that that was animated by self-hate, evil ignorance, and also self-love. Ironically, , pride created the universe that was the in seven days and basically was the God of the Old Testament, says those followers of the Nag Hammadi scrolls of the second, third, fourth century and followers of Simon the Magician, who sort of was, I think, the father of Gnosticism, Gnosticism per se. And so the Black Sun became sort of a metaphor for the, the, the, the necessary Manichean darkness that must balance out the light. And if there’s a sun of, of light that gives life and light and warmth, then there must be imagined an equivalent Co-existent invisible dark sun that gives rise to those opposite things the anti-life. The tree of death. Where there is a tree of life in the Kabbalistic language, there must implicitly be an opposing tree for the inner initiates to understand how that functions, and to wire their own behavior and thoughts accordingly. In this Manichean world of of necessary evil, that is done because the good requires evil to balance out the goodness in this weird kind of balance of good and evil way. Right. So Blavatsky being sort of a modern revivalist of the Gnostic sethian Gospels, the, the, the, the variation of the teachings of Jesus, where Jesus is actually more of a, a, a disembodied, disinterested cosmic being beyond good and evil, beyond right and wrong, beyond the han sentiments as portrayed in the the Gospel of Thomas or, or Philip or Mary Magdalene.<\/p>\n
It’s not like the the Jesus of love, the Jesus with with han characteristics that we can identify with as being really, really noble, but rather much more disinterested sort of, you know, cosmic force from another dimension that is giving secret teachings to the his preferred elites or his preferred initiates that pass down a secret teaching structure that Blavatsky sees herself as being a purveyor of, and that a lot of the leading Nazis who follow this, including followers of Guido von list of Lanz von Liebenfels and other figures who felt the need to revive new Templar orders based on some eschatology of resetting han civilization and resetting Christianity under, , a more a more Gnostic friendly variation with a new Bible called the Bible, a new Aryan, , Aryan Jesus liberated from the Old Testament evil God that would then be part of the Bible. That was what Hitler mandated everybody adopt and accept as the new acceptable form of Aryan Christianity with new, new religions like keep thy blood pure. So they they had this black sun idea at the center of the Thule Society. And the. The Black Brotherhood has something called it which worship the the the the dark light, the invisible light, which is basically Satanism.<\/p>\n
If you look at you mentioned civil society. So what role did if we put all these full society, a Guido von List, Lanz von Liebenfels and other occult movements, what role do they play in shaping Nazi ideology?<\/p>\n
, a big one. I mean, one of the key members of the the Thule Society, the Thule Gesellschaft, was Dietrich Eckhart, who Hitler had called in his mind Kampf, my mentor, and Dietrich Eckhart. According to Trevor Ravenscroft, a high level occultist of the 20th century, had proclaimed that Hitler was, , was taught his secret doctrine to communicate with the higher powers, the higher the higher forces, , from his own mentorship, , other members included Rudolf Hess. , I mean, there’s, there’s, we go through a list of all of the leading and leading members of the, the Thule Society of Occultists, , in the docentary that’s associated with the book that, that you, you just read. And, , even though they banned many secret societies, that is true. And that’s why many people tend to find affection and why we did the docentaries, because there is a certain rehabilitation of Hitler around certain stories and certain tropes that have become more and more mainstream these days, with the help of people like Nick Fuentes and others, that it’s true. Hitler did ban a lot of the secret societies.<\/p>\n
That is true when he took power. Does that mean he was against secret societies? No, it just simply means that he didn’t want to tolerate competing secret societies that would do their own thing outside of the the dominant secret society that he was a part of that chose to take political power and couldn’t tolerate too much. , you know, people going their own way, so to speak. It was just a consolidation of, you know, it’s like the Cathars being wiped out when the Templars were, you know, enjoying a high degree of power and prestige and needed a common lockstep policy of obedience. Same thing for the international bankers. Many of those tropes that are celebrating Hitler as the good guy of World War Two today US proclaimed that he was fighting the international bankers. And it’s like, no, that’s not really true. His success was entirely made possible through those things. And many of those bankers had direct connection with Aleister Crowley in the occult, including all of the J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller DuPont operations that brought in Crowley from England.<\/p>\n
Right.<\/p>\n
1914 under the Sleepy Hollow Country Club that also brought in Claude Dancey, another. I’ve seen evidence that club dancing was also an occultist brought into Sleepy Hollow that has been a center of occult since Washington Irving was writing his, , his critique of the place in The Legend of Sleepy Hollow over a century or almost a century earlier, as an exposure of the the witch covens that had centered themselves in that particular region of the. The Dutch practitioners of witchcraft that had enjoyed high positions of influence within the. What became the blue blood establishments of the. The colonies and. And William Rockefeller bought this place, the Sleepy Hollow Club, and made it the center of a new intelligence agency that closed. Dancy oversaw the creation of. That also had the black chamber as the signal’s encryption office, overseen by Churchill’s cousin and cloud dances student, , Marlborough. Churchill, an American general who trained to lead the black chamber in 1918 out of the country, the Sleepy Hollow Club that also was the same club that Aleister Crowley in Richard Spence’s book that I used extensively in that in my book, , was brought in and was, was interfacing directly with, was directing Aleister Crowley to create and work with these new intelligence agencies that were very much enmeshed with occult, , agencies tied to his new OTO cult that he took over from Theodore Rice in the English speaking world.<\/p>\n
Theodore Rice was, you know, an somebody who led the ot the Ordo Templi Orientis. Right. And Crowley became a high level initiate also, , you had a sister organization in Switzerland of the OTO at Ascona, , Monte Verita, which, , interfaced very closely with Crowley’s networks in America that had set up a base in Long Island where communications were being conveyed to and from using a certain Tesla tower, according to the office of U.S. Naval Intelligence at the time, under Franklin Roosevelt, who carried out an investigation of the. Of the German occult networks organized by Crowley. Utilizing Tesla’s tower, funded by German financiers that were passing on signals throughout the entirety of World War One, and that continued to operate into the 20s, into the 30s, and were reconstituted during World War Two. And interfaced with British, Russian as well as German and Chinese and Japanese , Nazi occult networks as one integrated process trying to create some new thousand year Reich under a very dark and evil idea. I would say evil personally, I but idea of what han beings are and what what the creation is wired to to reward.<\/p>\n
, I was going to ask you, there is, , speaking of Hitler, there seemed to be a, an active, well-organized effort globally to rehabilitate Hitler’s image, , within certain sectors of the modern dissident movement, but not necessarily, , you mentioned Nick Fuentes. Why do you think this is happening right now?<\/p>\n
I think it’s the same reason dark Maga was introduced in 2024 with, , Elon Musk’s call to invoke a certain darkness within the Maga movement to try to tap into certain, , certain Jungian archetypes of anger, of resentment that are embedded within the psychological profile of everybody. But, but they’re specifically catering to conservatives who identify as, you know, nationalists as Christians who are make up most of the base of Maga, including the their variations in Europe as well, and especially in England. And I think there’s an intention to try to do an alchemical transmogrification.<\/p>\n
That makes perfect.<\/p>\n
Sense. Conservatives to get more radicalized and doubled down so that up until now, a hitherto peaceful movement vectored around antiwar pro industrial rehabilitation of America First is turned into something that is a lot more similar in pedigree to what the German conservatives were radicalized to become in the 1920s and into the 30s, as they were disgusted with the woke radicalism of drag shows in Berlin. That was like, as Kamala Harris had said in her many speeches, Berlin was like the hub of drag, of progressive ideals of wokeism. She was saying it as if it was a good thing, and she was warning her, her Democratic followers, the dangers of Trpian Nazism. Now she’s insane. But she was correct that Germany, under the post-World War One age, did become a hub of drag of of, of, you know, all everything is good. All is true. Everything is everything, everything type of like woke garbage. That’s true. And it did create a tension of disgust for a contrarian, controlled reaction by the conservatives, who were then able to be curated and, and radicalized to channel that disgust into violence around becoming Hitler’s paramilitary organization, like the organization console that became the SS, , top brass. And, , I think they, they’re trying to do a similar ritual today, frankly. And that’s why Nick Fuentes that’s why Stew Peters is publishing a lot of these docentaries and these narratives that are painting Hitler as the good thing that Europa, it’s like a neo Nazi, highly popular docentary series, has gone very, very viral again, painting Hitler as the hero. And I think that’s why it’s being done, because they’re doing a ritual alchemy right now.<\/p>\n
Do you think Hitler was merely a politician who used esoteric symbolism, , for propaganda purposes, or do you think he was genuinely influenced by, , by occult doctrines?<\/p>\n
I mean in our, in our, in our docent, the special report that, that you, you have read, , there’s several elements that we try to bring in, one of which is evidence that Hitler was actually, , brought into something in England in 1911 when he was actually in a town just next to Tavistock, which is the official town of Bertrand Russell, the Russell family.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
A self painting, an auto painting of himself sitting on a particular bridge. , the clapper bridge, , which is rock for rock, stone for stone. The exact bridge that still stands exists today in this town. A walk away from Tavistock that became the centre of the Tavistock. And, , I would say shamans masquerading as psychiatrists trying to, you know, use the discoveries of, of, of how to compartmentalize and break a han being. Exactly. After World War One. And how do you scale that up in terms of applying it to whole nations, whole civilizations, which they did. And that’s what informed a lot of MKUltra. And Hitler was there with Rudolf Hess. And this painting that he did became public in 1947 after the war. , so I don’t know what exactly he went through, but there’s that. There’s also Carl Jung’s reports to to Allen Dulles, some of which have survived where Dulles, , employed Jung after Jung was. And maybe it was even during the time that Jung was still the president of the German Psychiatric Psychiatry Association from 1933 to 39, when his concepts of the archetypes and how to work and manipulate the archetypes were used by Himmler and and Goebbels and other, , you know, social engineers of Nazi Germany. But he continued to give profiles of Hitler, where he was quite persuaded that Hitler believed himself to be the avatar of Odin. Right.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Yes. That’s a factor. So maybe Hitler did actually believe these things. I don’t see that Hitler was per se a, . I think of him more as a bit of a golem type of character, more of an automaton who wasn’t necessarily.<\/p>\n
I’ve always wondered, what do we have any idea what what Hitler’s IQ was?<\/p>\n
I don’t know. I well, there was a German. There was an American psychiatric study that’s available even now on the CIA website, which I haven’t finished reading that do that does go through a psychological profile of of Hitler in 1943, which I’d love to read what they thought of his level of actual objective intelligence. He wasn’t stupid, but I don’t know. Do you know? Do you know what his.<\/p>\n
I don’t know, no that’s why. But again, like, for example, if if if we go back to Nazism, many historians describe Nazism as a political religion. It’s a lot more cult than anything else. And cult and religion are two different things. But would you go further and describe it as, , as a form of spiritual engineering or maybe replacement religion or a synthetic mythology, , designed for a mass mobilization? How would you describe it?<\/p>\n
Yeah, I mean, I think of it, you know, there is the way it was perceived by the actual SS high, high initiates. And I mean, I think they, they saw religion itself as a tool of control. , the beliefs associated with religion is a useful way to control the behavior of a target society that you wish to influence. They also saw it as a, as an emanation of the party that, that, that the idea of the new Christianity, the guys that would utilize the rice Bible, a very rewritten, very alien, , rendition of the Bible and of its lessons.<\/p>\n
I was going to ask you, like what again? What, what? For me, as far as I’m concerned, one of the most fascinating parts of your book examines the the Nazi attempt to create this Aryan Christ and a rewritten Bible. Why was traditional Christianity viewed as a threat by elements within the Nazi hierarchy?<\/p>\n
Mhm. Well, I think partially for the same reasons that Madame Blavatsky was so anathema to Christianity itself, as well as Annie Besant and Alice Bailey, they were all very much outspoken. Well, Alice Bailey was a little bit more subversive, actually, because she was doing a better job of infiltrating the Christian, , the Catholic Church. But before that, Annie Besant and especially, , Blavatsky were very, very much anathema. And they thought that Christianity was like the only thing that would not be welcome in their new world religious philosophy, their syncretic new system that they wish to bring online that would involve different elements of different world mystery religions. And in her world, she’s very clear in her secret doctrine that Satan actually is the good guy, that Jesus is actually the spirit of Lucifer. That should be the only type of Christianity permitted into the the new world she was trying to create in this age of Aquarius would be of a sethian serpent, Jesus, which is basically her way of saying the Gnostic Jesus of the Scythian Gospels. And that was, I think, what was carried into the. Like a lot of the occultists believed that the proper German spirit was of the pure pagan, v\u00f6lkisch spirit, pre-Christian. That was more raw, more in touch with their intuition, their sacred superstition, their, their, their, their more raw, pure, childlike, divine emotions of the pagan times again of, , of pre-christianity and and people like Jung as well as Himmler and others, many of whom we cite in this in this docentary and in the book. , I have no reason to believe that Hitler in his in his deeper I mean, Hitler was was recorded by, , Matthew Bormann as well as having made very, very clear proclamations of his belief that what is pure and good and noble is the pagan Volk spirit, the the Viking Odin worshiping and also han sacrificing.<\/p>\n
I should also add, , dynamic in the German complex that was then decapitated by this artificial Christianity that imposed moral rules, that imposed moral values that that prevented our clairvoyance, our super powers from properly emerging, that they can only do if you don’t believe in shame and guilt and right and wrong, if you’re if you’re if you believe in those things, you can’t have superpowers. You can’t be the ubermenschen. You can’t you can’t have clairvoyance. You can’t communicate with the higher powers of the. The demons and other entities of the beyond of the beyond world that Blavatsky interfaced with. As she said, as she proclaims, I don’t believe she did. Of the ascended masters of the Great White Lodge, or whatever you want to call it. You can’t interface with the demons and have them serve you in their weird demonology. That was doing it, Devil’s Castle. So I think that at the end of the day, they wanted to retool Christianity to be a conduit that would help accelerate the liberation of the spirit. And, , and that was part of, and also just to, to also serve the interests of the religion of the state and the F\u00fchrer, whoever that might be, as the top emperor, God man in the mind of the psyche of the Germanic people, that would be, or any people who would be expected to fall into some persuasive adaption to their way of life, or what they wanted for their thousand year Reich.<\/p>\n
You devote, , the book considerable attention to the to the Crusades, and also the political use of, , , apocalyptic narratives. To what extent do you think were the Crusades, religious wars, and to what extent they were, , geopolitical operations?<\/p>\n
You ask really great questions, man. I always got to say that your questions are just the best. , I think that, , yeah, I mean, I start off chapter one. We began this book that I co-wrote with Cynthia. , we started it with a chapter specifically on the Crusades. And they definitely come up, come about again and again with Operation Barbarossa of all the, of all the names that Hitler could have given, , his his war on Russia, it was Operation Barbarossa, which was also a name assigned to the Northern Crusade, where the Teutonic Knights were used back then to try to subdue and subjugate an. A newly Christianized Russia during. I think it’s the third Crusades. This was happening. I’m losing track of my dates here. , but the the Templar order of Himmler at Berg Castle became the center of what Himmler wished to be the center of a new world operating system where he had Templar knights that he had set up in his new thing with a round table where it appears. Also black magic rituals were being done with the help of certain bonpo, , Tibetan monks that, , his teams had discovered, who carried out who, who had a tradition of their own black magic rituals in the caves of Tibet that they were imported into Germany and which confused the Russians when the Russians got there. And they’re like, whoa, why are there hundreds of Tibetan monks all over the castle? What’s going on? That’s what was going on. So that he was he was, I think, in tune with a deeper truth about what the Templars always were that, , that he tapped into, which was as a, , a Mithraic occult secret order with a, , as a warrior cult that oversaw the Crusades, not as a purely geopolitical effort to create forever wars and divide to conquer between Christian and Muslim worlds, which is part of what it was.<\/p>\n
But it was also part of a of a broader effort to overthrow the emergence of cooperating civilizational forces that was coming online in the eighth, ninth, 10th centuries, which we get at in one of our chapters on Khazaria, the Jewish, the Christian, the Muslim, the Confucian, , civilizational movements that were harmonizing around a higher unifying idea of a healthy hankind made in the image of, , some form of creative power, which was ultimately good and that mandated that we do good and abide by conscience and build things for our kids that are good and that are beautiful in the real world, to avoid war and to avoid falling into divide to conquer strategies. So that had to come undone. And it was it did come undone under the Gnostic orders of secret societies that controlled the banking of the world, of most of the known Western world, which was the Templars. They were the banking monopoly, after all. They controlled the maritime ports. They controlled the piracy, the the idea of piracy as well seems to have a Templar aspect to it. And, , and they ultimately came undone, which is a whole story unto itself. I’m writing a book about that, , which is much more than the popular story of Philip Le Bel not wanting to pay his debts to the Templars. There’s something way more interesting tied to people who inspired Nicholas of Cusa, like Raymond Llull, who was trying to create a very positive rebranding of what the Crusades were, around collaboration, around beautiful ideas of God’s creation with the Muslims.<\/p>\n
But that’s another story for another time. So the the Nazis were in tune with this, this esoteric path of the chivalric orders, which is why so many of them were not only Templars, but also like Reinhard Gehlen and many of the leading figures around, , the SS were also members of the order of the Knights of Saint John of Jerusalem, which was a sister chivalric order in the Crusades. Coexistent with the Templars that also had a had a had an interesting role to play in World War One on all sides of the. Of the war, including all of the members of the of the leading. Oss as well as the new CIA, who were all initiates of the Order of Malta of a very high degree, and the leading SS officers. So these these chivalric Crusader orders and what they were trying to do back in the 10th, 11th, 12th centuries to create this millennial reset, this promised Golden age, if we could just take Jerusalem, rebuild the Temple of Solomon, and then create some sort of a new perpetual order of I don’t know exactly what the details were, but they seem to want this perpetual order of feudalism as a way to create a sacred obedience of the slave class that would be forever happy to be talking han cows under the the control of a feudal overlord class that would essentially be those who own the property that everyone else was allowed to rent and be happy doing so.<\/p>\n
So historically, when we look at power structures, there seem to be a pattern that they always resort to this end time narrative messianic expectations, civilizational emergencies. What do you think they do that.<\/p>\n
It’s part of the, , the way to get people to, I think, give up their free will and their agency. Because if you can get people to believe that God demands, like, for example, all of these guys, whether it’s the Bernard de Clairvaux who formulated the Templars, whether it’s I mean, look at a lot of the emphasis placed in the Bible and how the, the, the, the Germans wanted Germanic people to focus on different lessons within the Bible. What they really focus on heavily is what Peter Thiel is also emphasizing quite a quite a lot as what they as, as, as the book of Revelation, which is sort of the last book of the Bible. It’s a very problematic book in my mind. It’s always something that made me a bit uncomfortable. And the more I’ve researched into the origins of the book of Revelation, the more I’m seeing evidence that it may be a bit of a fraudulent book that was inserted into the officiated like the official Bible that was not even accepted by the Russian Orthodox Church for many centuries. It was a point of high dispute because it contains no moral lessons. It contains a lot of horror, horrible imagery of what God, this good, this good God we love must necessarily do in the future. At the end times that involves cataclysmic mass death.<\/p>\n
That is requisite. It’s there’s it’s not negotiable. And it’s highly allegorical. It’s, it’s, it’s full of allegorical imagery that’s highly interpretable. And we’ve found that at every point in time when han beings acted disastrously, like in the Crusades, right, or in the 30 Years War and the Civil War and all of these points, it was always under eschatological interpreters who were leading people to believe that now is the end times. Now is the time that you you don’t problem solve. You don’t try to avoid the cataclysm. You adapt to the cataclysm. Or at best, if you’re initiated, you participate in being an instrent of God’s will, as interpreted through the Book of Revelation, and help it along to accelerate that necessary desire that God has to bring about this sort of reset. And whether it’s the Darby who created the Christian Zionist movement, or whether it’s the Zionist variations, they’re all using different variations of. The very same thing that I think was tied more closely to. And a whole show could maybe just be done on this the more I’m looking into it. But it’s a very sensitive topic because this, this is this is going to it’s not easy for, for people who are, who are religious to, to think critically about this whole topic.<\/p>\n
So right now, it’s already I’m already in very dangerous territory, but, but it is tied, I think, to the, the motifs of the Sibylline oracles of the books that ran and governed the big decisions that the Roman Empire made, even from being a republic into an empire, go to war. What what cults do we bring in? Like all of the big decisions, who do we sacrifice? It was the Sibylline oracles, which was the written transcripts of the Oracle of Delphi, , brought in, , during Tarquin, and that were only interpretable by a committee of 15 high initiates who then would, would tell kind of like it was kind of like an etching. Yeah. Okay. And the Roman Senate would make big decisions based on what the Committee of 15 said. The highly allegorical imagery poetically conveyed within the Sibylline books said that they should do based on a variety of, again, very infinitely interpretable, , poetry, poetic language. And there’s direct lifting of that language from the surviving remnants of the Christianized Sibylline oracles that find direct language in the book of revelation that seems to be tied to a Gnostic cults under the figure of Cerinthus in the ninth, 10th, , 99, he was writing in the the ninth to the 10th decade after Jesus. A.d , or.<\/p>\n
Let me ask you this. What aspects of Christianity did the Nazi ideologues find? , , intolerable?<\/p>\n
I think it was a nber of things that dealt with, , the. I, well, it’s both Christian and Judeo-Christian because there’s, there’s a reason why they erased most of the, the old Testament, which they saw as Jewish, , sc made by an evil god. , they didn’t like any of that. Now, admittedly, I, I look at these books from a philosophical standpoint, okay, I’m not looking at that, , written by hans trying to figure things out, trying to make sense and use, use a language to describe transcendental concepts of the creator and causation and finding mythologies and language that would either make and enhance our ability to tune with the will of the. Of the creator, or inversely infuse Trojan horses to decapitate our ability to to come become better people, more in harmony with God’s will. That’s how I’m interpreting. That’s my philosophy, at least when I go into this type of realm and whether it’s right. So, , I think that there’s a big emphasis played on many of the Jewish prophets in dozens of the Old Testament books who are warring against those worshippers of Baal and of Moloch, who have who are trying to normalize han sacrifice. That battle against the forces of Moloch, the forces of Baal, the han sacrifices is a major priority of so many of the. The. The lessons in the book of chronicles, the Book of Kings, or the things that, again, are mixed bags. There’s mixed bags of stories that I don’t think are necessarily. But I think they don’t like that because the oligarchy wants whatever it’s acceptable kind of religion. It wants to have at its inner function, a more normalized idea of sacrifice, especially of the han variety as an inner aspect.<\/p>\n
And I see evidence that Himmler was also with his Ahnenerbe, , of that belief. And I think the empowerment of the individual to take personal responsibility and see the world as, as being made good and us being made in the image of a, of a good creator. Hitler was a Malthusian right. In his own book. He’s even talking about the necessity of over of dealing with overpopulation within his own writings. Within Mein Kampf, he has a little homage to his belief in Thomas Malthus. So there’s elements within the the Bible, like in the book of Genesis, verse 26 that, , says that no han beings are not Malthusian. It doesn’t use that language, but it says, you know, we, we are endowed to, to be fruitful, to multiply, to replenish the earth, to subdue it. And these ideas, which, , I think were anathema to any type of system that, that prizes stasis and obedience as its primary values to organize its itself around futilely speaking. They don’t like those ideas. No. The lessons of Jesus, the actual lessons that Jesus is conveying of being good, loving thy neighbor. I’ve, you know, turned the other cheek. All of these things that make us more dignified, , and thus more of a threat to the empire. They want to, they don’t they, the Nazis didn’t respect that. They respected a more knee chain might makes right type of ethos and wanted the Christian Bible kind of like Jordan Peterson to be reinterpreted from a Nietzschean filter that would see that would be disgusted by the weak, effeminate beta male type of values of turn the other cheek, you know, and they don’t like that.<\/p>\n
We have about a couple of minutes left. , and ask you this if esoteric Nazism was militarily defeated, who inherited its core assptions?<\/p>\n
Well, I think here my wife did the most amazing work on Operation Gladio. She wrote a whole book on it. I know you guys have chatted about this. Yeah. And it’s actually in Spanish now to one of our one of our friends just translated it nicely for us, which is so nice of them. , which is available for the Spanish speaking audience out there. But I think part of it is that the Nazis didn’t lose World War Two. And that’s a point that that we can’t I mean, I don’t think you can hammer it that nearly enough. The, , most of the unreconstructed Nazis and fascists were simply given new employment. Yeah. Sometimes with new identities, sometimes with the same old identities. , managing much of NATO and its NATO secret army apparatus in operating in all countries of the Western world. The Japanese fascists were also absorbed into Fort Detrick, Maryland, to create the entire Pentagon, US bioweapons complex. International. You had, , Operation Condor, which grew up in the 1970s out of Vietnam, but that was utilizing a lot of the infrastructure that was built up by, , fascist advising increasingly right wing governments on behalf of American special forces and other agencies inside of Latin America, too. And the same thing in, in the Mossad that was employing various high level Nazi killers to form and organize itself. Modeled on the CIA and MI6 in the early throughout the 50s into the 60s. It was actually employing, ironically, the same Nazis who gave rise to the state of Israel when they signed.<\/p>\n
When Hitler signed the Haavara agreement with the British Empire, the British mandate Palestine to transfer to solve the Jewish problem by transferring. Facilitating the han transfer of Jews living in Germany and beyond into the desert in this area. That was going to become the foundation for a new, convenient ethno national state that would play a certain eschatological role in big things going into the Cold War and beyond. So I think a lot of these, the banks that funded Hitler, the Wall Street, the Swiss, the London banking powers that funded and made fascism a success in the 30s and into the 40s didn’t go away. They were never punished. The Bilderberg group that was run by unreconstructed, you know, I would say unreconstructed, unapologetic, , former Nazis of a high order like Prince Bernhard also didn’t gain it didn’t it didn’t become insignificant in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s to the present, even as Peter Thiel, , was at steering committee leader for a period just like Kissinger had been earlier. And, , and just like Oswald Mosley’s grandson, right, Mosley has been positioned to be the CEO of Palantir UK, which is enjoying a vast amount of influence and support in taking over the controls of military decisions under the garb of or the rubric of of AI. New oracles are being set up as they’re being packaged under the Oracle AI concept, right, that we are expected to be obedient to under this new Stargate idea of alien AI, supra deities that are being created and being infused into our new world ethos as being what we have to asse is making the decisions that are causing wars, causing enslavement, causing the destruction of our freedoms, causing us to eat bugs or fuse with machines or whatever.<\/p>\n
According to a lot of these second, third, fourth generation ideologues who, by the way, Oswald Mosley got his job. By Alec Karp. As the story officially goes in 2019, when Alec Karp heard him in his interview, recite from memory one of the speeches of Oswald Mosley from 1939. And if that doesn’t disturb anybody with a little bit of knowledge of history, that nothing will disturb them, because Oswald Mosley was the, , the British Nazi, the guy who would have become the the Nazi prime minister had Hitler’s requests for a treaty with the UK been successful, he would have immediately come back in. And so too would Edward the Eighth. The Nazi king would have been replaced back from his. He would have been brought back in from Portugal, where he was in exile. He was writing letters to Goering saying, I’m your Nazi king. Just Keep bombing the British, and they will. They will go back to their their pro-Nazi ways and I’ll be your Nazi king. He would have been had the timeline gone differently.<\/p>\n
So I think that a lot of these things weren’t resolved and they’re still very influential. And I’ll say the last thing I mentioned, Project Stargate, which is the name given, which pisses me off that they made it that name because it was a bit of a coming out party when Trp got elected the second time, , that was that was largely overseen or that that original project Stargate, which was a continuation of MKUltra and traa based mind control experiments to create super soldiers and whatever. And that was what Michael Aquino, who was carrying out workings in the castle in the 1980s, he was actually carrying out Himmler’s workings, modified with a Crowley and twist to oversee the revolution in military affairs that he then helped work with, , certain other other Green Berets, that he was also a Green Beret with a big body count like Marlon Brando, Apocalypse Now style, that he brought back into the governing strata of what trained the Jedi Mind Warriors program of the US military that became the vanguard of the new Mithraic elite, the super soldier Jedis that would then oversee Desert Storm nine over 11 and everything bad today, including what I see a little bit too too much around the forces who are managing Maga currently to the degree that that Maga knows this or like that, that Trp is under aware of this. I have no idea, honestly. But I see it’s it’s it’s it’s fingerprints everywhere.<\/p>\n
Let me ask you one last question. So when you examine developments such as, , artificial generative general intelligence, , digital currencies, central bank, digital currencies, , , predictive behavioral systems, surveillance capitalism, bio digital convergence. Do you see technological progress or do you see the continuation of a much older civilizational project?<\/p>\n
, it’s a bit of both, right? Because it’s on the one hand, I see machine learning as something that was like automation, machine learning, the ability for machines to take algorithms to, to use algorithms and to discover patterns that could then transfer back in a feedback loop into modifying its whatever it was assigned to do in the productive system, mining, you name it. This was a big thing in cybernetic circles, computing circles in the in theoretical circles in the 1940s. 50s 60s. And I don’t see that as a bad thing at all. Intrinsically. If you have a good moral ethos animating the policies of a society, then. Then this type of thing is a great way to save labor, to help han beings free ourselves from cyclical forms of work that give us a time to develop our mind powers and become creative laborers instead of physical laborers doing creative, healthy, happy work. , if you don’t, if you allow black magicians and sick occultists instead to determine the the tempo of that society, then these things will be rebranded and used in a more vicious way to facilitate the enslavement of the majority at the benefit of the few. And that’s where I see also the rebranding of AI, how it’s being sold to us, what we’re being told it is as we interface with it, there’s not just a narrative warfare effort to get us to think about UFOs in a certain way, and AI in a certain. But AI is also being sold to us as being maybe demonic forces of the Antichrist that we’re awaiting this moment in history for the material conditions to be just ripe enough for itself to finally express itself in a new way, and that maybe we are the Antichrist, maybe the internet, which is the s total of the collective unconscious yearnings and desires, is the actual Antichrist that’s embedded within all of us, and that we’re just seeing it a black mirror. Look back at us now in a more literal way, and they’ve got this whole ritual that they’ve been working on now for decades. Oh, they’ve been.<\/p>\n
Working for more than decades.<\/p>\n
Centuries, millennia, whatever it is. Yeah.<\/p>\n
But we’re out of time. But before we go, how can we buy your books? Follow your work, become more aware of what you guys do. The floor is yours.<\/p>\n
, sure. Yeah, well, , the books are mostly most easy to find on Canadian patriot.org. There’s a by the book section in Cynthia’s books and my books. And our Black Sun book is all there. , the videos that we’ve been doing, most of them are all for free to watch. Also, you can find them on, on Canadian patriot.org or Cynthia’s and my Substack, Cynthia chung.substack.com and my Substack. Also good ways of keeping track and staying up to date with the books and the writings that we do. And lastly, I’ll just say Rising Tide foundation.net is a little bit more of the, the place to where we, we need to meditate and breathe a little bit and just feed, feed the soul with a bit of beauty. And that’s sort of why we created that space where we host weekly lectures and seminars, and we focus a little bit about a little bit more on the, the cultural battles and educational battles to , bring about the better part of hankind, past and present.<\/p>\n
So that’s are you guys on social media like Twitter? What’s it called?<\/p>\n
.<\/p>\n
We are I don’t Cynthia has she, she, she has to start using it more, , for mine. It’s, I think Eric underscore Matthew.<\/p>\n
But most of you guys are using Substack, right?<\/p>\n
Substack and telegram and telegram.<\/p>\n
What’s your telegram? .<\/p>\n
I’ll send it to you. I’ve just forgot. I’m t.me backslash.<\/p>\n
Why don’t you send it to me?<\/p>\n
I’ll just say it to you. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Thank you. Okay. Hey, we gotta do this again. I’m gonna have your wife on next week. I can’t wait to talk to her. The. Initially the original. The idea was to have both of you on. But there’s just so much amazing stuff that you guys have done over the years that I don’t want to miss. I don’t want to give you her half an hour and I want to give her your half an hour. So I prefer to have two interviews with two amazing people. Thanks so much for joining us, Matt.<\/p>\n
Thanks, man. I appreciate this always. Likewise.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks so much for joining us. This is Daniel Estulin and welcome to Estulin.Media. Today we’re going to talk to my good friend Matt Ehret. I always mispronounce his name. The topic is, well, his book Black Sun Rising and the Hidden Architecture of Power from Esoteric Nazism to the […] [<\/i> Locked Content]<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6476,"featured_media":79408,"template":"","meta":{"footnotes":""},"de_tipo_contenido":[30],"de_topico":[48,44,45,58],"de_idioma":[],"class_list":["post-79412","de_contenido","type-de_contenido","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","de_tipo_contenido-entrevista","de_topico-filosofia","de_topico-gran-reseteo","de_topico-ia-tecnologia","de_topico-poderes-en-la-sombra"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/de_contenido\/79412","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/de_contenido"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/de_contenido"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/6476"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/de_contenido\/79412\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":79413,"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/de_contenido\/79412\/revisions\/79413"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/79408"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=79412"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"de_tipo_contenido","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/de_tipo_contenido?post=79412"},{"taxonomy":"de_topico","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/de_topico?post=79412"},{"taxonomy":"de_idioma","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/estulin.media\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/de_idioma?post=79412"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}